Posts by Juan Viejo2

when a convention was to be held in your city and it was believed there weren't enough hotel rooms available or at least affordable ones, the witnesses living in that city were asked to go out into the territory and ask people if they had a room or rooms someone attending the convention could use.

you could report your time doing this as part of your ministry.

i could never bring myself (14 or 15) to do this....it just seemed too weird for a kid to go to a house and ask the householder for a room but many kids in the hall did this.

Juan Viejo2

I was a young boy when my JW family went to both the 1953 and 1958 New York International Conventions. I can't remember where we stayed at one convention. But at the other (I think it was 1958) we stayed in a home in Mt. Vernon, just north of the city.

I can't remember too much about that experience except that our rooms were very dark, even with the lights on. We had to go down the hall to the one bathroom. There were five of us and at least two of the homeowners having to share the same bathroom. I remember how bad it smelled in there everytime I had to use it.

All I remember about the people was that they were German or Polish, that they were in their 60s or 70s, and they were very gruff in their manner. Maybe I felt that way because I was a kid and wasn't use to that manner in our home.

I also remember that the old folks would fight and scream at each other all night, finally giving up and going to sleep around 3 in the morning. All of us would take Mexican sponge baths, toss on the cleanest clothes we had, and get out of there as early as we could. We'd try to get over to one of the ballparks as early as we could to have breakfast, but they started cleaning up around 8:30, so we often had to grab something on the street near the ballpark to get us through the morning.

One day we made a trip out to the trailer city to see some friends. I'm sure that in many ways, the trailer/tent city concept was the inspiration for Woodstock and other rock concert gatherings that would happen 15 years later. Everyone seemed relaxed sitting in their own tent or Airstream or converted school bus, listening to the talks being piped in over the loudspeakers. They could eat, sleep, and chatter during the sessions and no one bothered them.

The one big mistake I made in 1958 was to wear my blue LA Dodger baseball cap. Not a cool idea at the time since both the Dodgers and Giants had left the city the year before. I got a lot of stares on the subways until my dad made me stop wearing it and got me a plain old fishing cap like his.

202

DVD "JW's Faith In Action, part 1 Out of Darkness" Omits! Omits! Omits!

by Wasanelder Once in

i've been watching the new dvd and it is a bull fest about russell.

i haven't even gotten half way and they already excluded one very important bit of information.

you'll recall that russell "lost" his faith and "turning away from church creeds and searching for truth, russell examined some leading oriental religions, only to find these unsatisfying".

Juan Viejo2

Are these DVDs going to be made available to the public by the WT? Or are they only for indoctrinating the already indoctrinated indoctrinators?

I still need part two if someone can PM me with a good link. Thanks.

21

Can Jehovah's Witnesses accept blood transfusions in emergencies? WikiAnswers

by ThomasCovenant in

wiki answers has the following answer.

only if the blood has been broken down into smaller parts that we call fractions.. firstly the 'faithful and discreet' slave are the 10 or so men in brooklyn that make up our organization's governing body.

these men, the 'faithful and discreet slave' class, tell us not to give or receive whole blood or four main parts of blood, based on their understanding of acts 15 and therefore we are obeying jesus' direct commands as explained in the following quote,.

Juan Viejo2

This is like saying that vegans can not eat meat unless the steak is cut into small squares and they leave some on their plate.

20

The 144,000 Belief - What Will Happen To It?

by mentallyfree31 in

jw
friends

what do you think will happen to the 144,000 belief as the years progress?

will the wts convert that to a "figurative" number and leave it open-ended?

or will they come up with another date and insist that anybody after that date should not partake?.

Juan Viejo2

"It is to be regretted that some ran ahead of Jehovah's Heavenly Organization and perhaps said more than they should about a literal number going to Heaven." However, long before 1914, the Holy Spirit was instructing the Faithful and Discreet Slave, pointing forward to this being a figurative, rather than a literal number. When we examine the scriptures, it is evident that...

Quandry, I think you are on to something. Likewise, Sir has a good followup:

I still say they'll go back to Russell's idea of 2 heavenly classes, a group of literally 144,000 "kings & priests", and a "little flock" of other anointed ones with the "heavenly hope". And of course the 3rd group, the "other sheep" with the "earthly hope"...

This will allow everyone to decide, based on their on conscience, whether they feel they have the heavenly hope or not, but whether they will be of the 144K or not will be decided when they get there.

But think for a moment: Now you have an unlimited heavenly hope and an unlimited earthly hope. Everyone who's been good enough to get to heaven will find room there - and an appropriate job waiting for them when they get there.

Down on earth, we will now have room for the people of Sodom, all the babies drowned in the flood, everyone who died without hearing the Gospel, and a few "bad guys" like Ham, Esau, Delilah, and Judas that just happened to be the poor bastards chosen to get the short end of the historic stick.

We can all watch as Jezebel, Nimrod, Herod, Caiphas, and Cain will just appear briefly after the resurrection, be judged, and then go poof! when judged and found guilty.

Without being tied to 1935, or a particular number like 144,000, there will also be room in either heaven or earth for all of the early Christians who DIDN'T get thrown to the lions, crucified, or used as living candles to light up the road to Rome during Nero's time. Maybe there will also be some room for all those truly good and devout Catholics, sincere and dedicated protestants that made the Reformation possible, and all those poor Jews who were forced to become Christians during the Inquisition, who faithfully served God with a good heart and dedication - but they lost out because they just didn't happen to have a Kingdom Hall in their town at the time so that they could belong to the "true" Christian religion of JWs.

Makes you think about all of the possibilities, doesn't it?

20

The 144,000 Belief - What Will Happen To It?

by mentallyfree31 in

jw
friends

what do you think will happen to the 144,000 belief as the years progress?

will the wts convert that to a "figurative" number and leave it open-ended?

or will they come up with another date and insist that anybody after that date should not partake?.

Juan Viejo2

At some point over the next decade or two, they will have to address the issue of the 144,000. I'm sure that they will have to admit that it is a figurative number, which is how it is presented in Revelations.

12 is one of the perfect numbers, like 7 and 10. 12 tribes, 12 months, 12 apostles, etc.

1000 is another multiple of a perfect number 10X10X10 = 1000

12 x 1000 = 12,000 a multiple of two perfect numbers

12 x 12,000 = 144,000 a multiple of 3 perfect numbers.

From the description of the 144,000, it would seem that the writer is trying to say that it was a huge gathering, but not unlimited, with representatives from all the tribes of Israel, God's chosen nation. The whole thing is figurative.

The issue of the value of 144K has long been questioned. Since several hundred thousands of early Christians were massacred by the Romans for 300 years, and then all of the free-thinkers and heretics of the times of the Catholic Inquisitions - easily were in the thousands. The new DVD tries to include men like Luther, Zvingli, Tyndale, Wycliffe, Newton, and Calvin in amongst the "true followers of Christianity" (questionable on many levels), then you have to include their followers and people like the Anabaptists and Hugenots.

There was absolutely no Biblical support for 1935 being the cutoff date for the chosing of the Anointed - and there really isn't any for the hard number of 144,000. Plus the 144,000 were all supposed to be male virgins and the children of Israel (Jewish).

I really think that we will see some sort of revivalist or reformation movement in the WT sometime in the future.

730

Through a Darkened Pane

by compound complex in

my frequent walks these last few years about the neighborhood so familiar to me would ordinarily be construed a pleasant enough non-event.

a little mild exercise - taken in small doses to keep the joints operating properly - and a keen eye peeled for the ever-changing face of nature have rendered the daily promenade a suitable diversion.

until recently.

Juan Viejo2

Somewhat better link to Syl's article is

http://ex-jw.com/remembering-raymond-franz

Be sure to watch the video in the sidebar.

25

In Remembrance of Raymond Victor Franz

by snowbird in

my thoughts on ray franz.

living down here in the backwoods of alabama, we were privy to very little of what was going on in wt world.

most of us never heard about the shake-up at headquarters during the 80's.

Juan Viejo2

Somewhat better link to Syl's article is

http://ex-jw.com/remembering-raymond-franz

Be sure to watch the video in the sidebar.

202

DVD "JW's Faith In Action, part 1 Out of Darkness" Omits! Omits! Omits!

by Wasanelder Once in

i've been watching the new dvd and it is a bull fest about russell.

i haven't even gotten half way and they already excluded one very important bit of information.

you'll recall that russell "lost" his faith and "turning away from church creeds and searching for truth, russell examined some leading oriental religions, only to find these unsatisfying".

Juan Viejo2

I managed to get part one, but not the second part. Can anyone PM me a new link to part 2?

Thanks...